Wednesday, December 20, 2006

Its a little bit funny... a church can send out invites to their carol service etc, a celebration of the birth of Jesus, without even a knock on the just seems so cold and so empty, at least the JW's knock.

Where were they for the other 364 days of 2006, the card I got never even had a contact name or number, it just gets filed with the other advertising junk like Lidl and Somerfield.

I think I once heard of a church who put a £5 note in 400 cards and delivered them at night so as not to be seen, they never advertised their services or their own name, just did it out of love, it cost them £2000, but it was worth a lot more. Nobody ever knew it was them, oh except God that is.

But hey, not many people give a toss about what he says anymore.


Anonymous said...

I think churches who try and get people through their doors are to be applauded for effort, are you trying to say that they shouldn,t bother or are you saying all churches need to knowck on doors, be inviyed in spend hours chatting to you when most people who never go to churches would not like this to happen? I personally think its a nice touch and a nice invitation!

Dave Lynch said...

No I am saying that most christams cards (all) are given within existing relationships. The only xmas cards I receive from non relational sources are from people like kwikfit, lloyds TSB, tescos and churches.

I do not think we should knock on doors full stop, cold selling is for businesses who are marketing their brand.

Also please do not post anon, thanks, Dave

dinsy said...

Anonymous, would you think it was a nice touch if a Wiccan Coven pushed an anonymous card through your door inviting you to their Samhain celebration? Please reply to this point, I really want to know your answer.

"I think churches who try and get people through their doors are to be applauded for effort"

This seems to be all that "spreading the gospel" comes down to these days - get people into the church, where they can hear a (probably second rate) one size fits all sermon, and talk about the weather over a cup of tea.

Before I was a believer, i would have far rather someone had come to my door to talk about Jesus' birth to me, than just shove a card through my door in an effort to get me to enter their building. I may not have agreed with what they were saying, but I would rather have the personal contact.

I used to invite the JWs in and stop and talk to the Mormons on the street whenever I had time, same as I do now. If other people don't want to talk, they can always say "no thanks" and refuse the card.

In the instance that Dave refers to, where no contact details were on the card, I think that is really cold and seems more like a cynical marketing excercise than genuine care for the people receiving the cards. What if one of them has a need or desire to talk to someone about God, who are they going to contact? Obviously not someone from this church!

colin said...

A few points I think it would be necessary to refute.

A Wiccan Coven pushing an anonymous card through my door isn't likely to happen any time soon, so I'm not entirely sure what your point is exactly.
Speaking from a non-Christian point of view, those who prefer a visit from someone to tell you about Jesus are in the definite minority. Knocking on people's doors is irritating, full stop.

It's impractical to put all of your contact details on the card - the chances are that you'll be bombarded with prank calls. If someone wants to know about God that, what's to stop them visiting the Church?

Not all Churches have £2000 to spend. Also, if your definition of 'love' is to receive a fiver in the post, you need to have your head checked.

I'm not a Christian but I used to be and I still know many now who go to Churches, and I know people who have been helped greatly through the outreach of christians working from a Church environment.
This appears to be to have been a genuine attempt to reach out to people who may need something to make their lives just that bit more fulfilled, not a 'cynical marketing exercise' - this is a Church we're talking about, not a corporation.

Dave: if you don't like Churches, don't go. You can praise God in your own way, and help people in your own way, but there is absolutely no need for this frankly immature bashing of organisations that have done so much good throughout the world. This utopian Church you displayed in one of your posts ('we pray for a church in Dingwall where cherubs ornament the ceilings and LOVELY people hug each other because Jesus loves them so' etc) is not going to happen. Not while you display such a cynical attitude.

Dinsy - your comments come across as uninformed and rantish. It seems to me like you've thrown yourself headfirst into this issue, and many of your points just don't make rounded sense. For example:

'...where they can hear a (probably second rate) one size fits all sermon, and talk about the weather over a cup of tea.'

It's just filled with assumption which just conveys your anger rather than making the point. What is it about Churches that makes you so angry?

Churches may not be able to accomplish personal extensions to each and every single one of us, but even just a leaflet through the door can make a difference without coming across as forceful. The fact that they are trying should be applauded, rather than belittled.


Dave Lynch said...


Did I mention cherubs?

Your logic is seriously flawed and you know nothing of what you speak.

Colin said...


Dave Lynch said...

Glad it made you laugh, I guessed you were joking, nobody could be that hypocritical by chance.

What religion are you trying now, you should try the JW's, they are far better at door knocking, they always call back and leave phone numbers and even invite you to their homes.

Good job Jesus never told people to come to the temple to meet him hey. The fact that you rejected Christianity makes me think you never met Jesus, shame, his teaching is brilliant.

dinsy said...

Oh, here we go again. Don't like what someone is saying, so don't try to refute it, just attack them.

Colin, please explain how is it "uninformed" to say that most sermons are "one size fits all"? How can they be anything else when one speaker is holding the stage for 20-30 minutes and telling a roomful of people what some text means and how to apply it? How can it possibly be personalised when teaching is given in this form?

As you are no longer a christian, I assume you don't (often) go to church, how do you know that there are no second rate sermons around? Do you deny that people often discuss the weather over a cup of tea after the service? How would you know if you don't go to the service?

Why should I not comment on a subject that I have opinions on, in a forum that is devoted to allowing people to air their opinions, on a blog that I frequently read and contribute to?

You say my post is "just filled with assumption which just conveys your anger rather than making the point. What is it about Churches that makes you so angry?"

Anyone who knows me will know that I disagree with so-called "friendship evangelism" and getting people into buildings so they can be preached at. That was my whole point, how come you failed to see it? Were you blinded by your own anger that someone dared to criticise "The Church" that you don't belong to or agree with?

You are making quite a few assupmtions yourself my friend. What in my original post makes you think churches make me angry?


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