Monday, October 16, 2006

Pastor 3

What qualities/charecteristics would lead you to summise that someone is a pastor?


Anonymous said...


Short answer:

The Fruit - results of his work. Well fed sheep who are kept safe.

As your wife ministers to your children, Dave, she is both episkopos, pastor and minister, isn't she?


Shieldsy said...

Depressed, discouraged, good at acting, good at keeping secrets, good at hiding their own sin, thick skinned.

usadave said...


If the shepherd is ill, the sheep will die of starvation or the attacks of the enemy. I pray you are not being pastored by such a person.


Shieldsy said...

I am that person!!

Gillian said...

When i was little i thought that pastors were people to be respected/feared of - they always scared the living daylights out of me. Now i don't fear them my relationship with certain churches seems tarnished.
Pastors should be to those in their care as Christ was to his disciples and is to everyone, loving and caring. They should set an example to others. They should be real, genuine, not simply show people what they think they should see.
Ali says - dog collar!

Brian Robertson said...

Richard Baxter :” All the church either rise or fall as the ministry doth rise or fall (not in riches or worldly grandeur) but in the knowledge zeal and ability for the work!”

The two historic Baptist church streams in Scotland of leadership and ministry had differing emphasis. The Scotch Baptists had plural eldership but it disappeared back to “one minister” due to “pressure of modern life” and perhaps a pulling to make the local church similar to the ministry of the established church (one man ministry). Reasons for their disappearance are:

1)Desire for full time paid Pastor.
2)A wish for educated ministry.
3)Single Pastor could be more effective in evangelism.
4)Changing social composition of churches.
5)Influence of other Baptists (English:Christopher Anderson, Charlotte Chapel, Edinburgh).
6)Change of view with regard to Scotch Baptists during the “spirit of the age of enlightenment” period.
7)Some were swept beyond Baptist circles into churches of Christ – Campellites.

Other Baptists historically had a Pastor and a Diaconate. Many churches have reconsidered the concepts of corporate eldership in addition to the Diaconate. Such an eldership can lighten the load of a Pastor and can accommodate lay-Pastors in an improved pastoral care for the congregation. Elders are both appointed by and answerable to the church meeting. In terms of church policy decision making is squarely in the church meeting.

1 Timothy 5 v 17
Eldership – some set apart for full time service, others working alongside (more than one elder).Eldership in local churches is a synagogue model.
Bishop and Presbyter are identical (overseer).
Diaconate 1 Timothy 3 v 8-13 – Not an enabling ministry as such.
Phil 1 v 1 – A ministry of assistance rather than a ministry of spiritual leadership (server).

Pastoral and Teacher Characteristics
Timothy as a Pastor and teacher had delegated authority from Paul
a) Gifted ministry – not so much personal talent, divine gifting.
b) Pastoral – is trained ministry.
C) Pastoral ministry is appointed (recognised, sealed and enhanced in public ceremony 1 Timothy 4 v 14, 2 Timothy 1 v 6).
d) Pastoral ministry is a recognised ministry – local church appointed but used in other churches.
e) Pastoral ministry is authoritative ministry, has spiritual authority Hebrews 13 v 17, 1 Thes. 5 v 12-13 – To command, correct, rebuke and encourage.
f) Pastoral ministry is to be supported ministry 1 Timothy 5 v 17, 1 Corinth 9 v 7-14. Paul argues that Pastors should be supported but he personally waived his right.
g) Pastoral ministry varies. Administrative (sees to appointments, Elders, Deacons). Liturgical (corporate prayers, readings and preaching). Pastoral care and evangelism.
h) Pastoral ministry is an exemplary ministry requiring highest standards, integrity, domestic harmony, social standing as well as spiritual giftedness. Example to flock 1 Timothy 4 v 12, 1 Timothy 3 v 1-7, 1 Corinth 11 v 1 and a stern judgement awaits those in the pastoral ministry for their actions James 3 v 1.

Meg said...

Richard Baxter's "The Reformed Pastor" - or whatever that seminal work of his is called - should be read by anyone with any interest in this topic. My husband and I looked for months before we finally found a good, used copy of it. Baxter was great.

Mr Robertson, I think your post is a beautiful, excellent exposition of historical and current pastoral duties.

What, however, if a pastor refuses to teach or to allow a teaching ministry in a church? What if he refuses to allow a Bible study or Sunday school and says that neither he nor the elders have the time for such things?

usadave said...

Shieldsy said...
I am that person!!

11:34 AM

Time for a reality check, friend. If it is getting you down, you will struggle to lift anyone else up.

Enlist your elders for teaching and preaching - delegate responsibility - there is no Biblical reason not to.

Check out "Alexander Strauch"


usadave said...

"What, however, if a pastor refuses to teach or to allow a teaching ministry in a church? What if he refuses to allow a Bible study or Sunday school and says that neither he nor the elders have the time for such things?"

Is this an ordained pastor or a fallen angel?

Sounds to me as if you should move on, Meg.

Brian Robertson said...


What, however, if a pastor refuses to teach or to allow a teaching ministry in a church? What if he refuses to allow a Bible study or Sunday school and says that neither he nor the elders have the time for such things?"

If he is a pastor can he teach.
There are five folds in the Ministry

Apostle Pastor Prophet Teacher Evangelist

All displayed in the church.
So maybe someone else is gifted to teach?

The church asumes that the "leader/pastor" can do, will do, should do all things,.


Brian Robertson said...

A pastor looks after the sheep. They need to be a good communicator at the One to one.

If they are too busy something is wrong......


Meg said...

Oh, I'm gone from that church. Actually, it's been a year today since this pastor threw me out.

I was making too many requests, like for Bible studies, and he had a "request" of his own...

Whatever. I don't think he was/is born again, so I didn't belong there anyway. Too bad I didn't see it until he threw me out.

If anyone feels like praying for an anonymous congregation, this is one to pray for. They don't know that they likely have a lackey of the "prince of the power of the air" for their pastor. The Lord will know for whom you're praying; I've been praying for them for awhile, but I'm just not so moved to do so anymore. Thanks.

Brian Robertson said...

So Meg What do you do for "Church" now>?

Meg said...

I attend a small, independent, somewhat Reformed Baptist church every Sunday. I have some doctrinal differences with it, however, which preclude my joining it. There are a couple of other places I wander to... I attend a very solid Bible study at another church every Wednesday evening. I'd really rather belong somewhere, but the Lord hasn't provided that yet. I'm a "scattered sheep..." (Ezekiel 34) - but I'd rather that this not be the case for the rest of my life.

I know that the Lord is faithful, and He will provide me with another local assembly in His timing. He's the One Who keeps His promises, and He's all I have - and all I need.

Brian Robertson said...


May you find god in all aspects of your life.

Dave is a pastor a one to one person.

Ps check your own blog


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