Monday, October 23, 2006

Gay

Is homosexuality a sin or an abomination? I have noticed this 'abomination' rhetoric used more and more in church speak, I guess it is based on a levitical verse.

The thinking normally goes 'homosexuality is a worse sin because it is an abomination'. Some people may not think homosexuality is a sin at all, thats not what I am asking here though.

The question is this 'is homosexuality a worse sin just because we list it as an abomination'?

If it is an abomination should we campaign against things like 'mardi gras' etc?

15 comments:

yeshua'smags said...

I think we should treat homosexuality like any other sin. I think we (christians) need to stop focusling on them like they are abominations and think about what the draw is to the homosexual community.
They are VERY accepting, they find the good in everyone who would otherwise be considered freaks and outcasts and they have a warm accepting place for them. Sound familiar? Isn't that what we're supposed to do as christians?
The more we go around rallying against their lifestyle, the further we push them into it!

yeshua'smags said...
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Dave said...

mags...okay thats it, dont know if anything better can be said about this post, so insightful, gonna try and read some of your blog if I can

Thanks for dropping by...Dave

Meg said...

Well, but there is Romans 1...

I have somewhat distant relatives who are homosexuals; I have friends who have come out of it and "the best hairdresser in the world" (mine) is one. I have nothing remotely resembling hatred for any of these people. I understand that there is a tendency towards that particular sin, but it is different from other sins. It is a gross and, evidently to God, a despicable use of one's body - an abomination (Leviticus 20:13; Romans 1:26-28; 1 Corinthians 6:9; Revelation 21:8, among others). "Hate the sin but love the sinner?" No - don't judge, but don't be content to leave the sinner in his sin, either. Witness to him or her. Let them know that there is a way out, but it's only through Jesus Christ.

We all have tendencies to particular sins; one of my worst ones is anger. I don't want to be left in it; I want to conquer it, but that won't happen completely until the Lord brings me home. Many homosexuals - more than will admit it, even some who advance their homosexuality against the importunings, however graceless, of Christians - would like to be free of the "lifestyle," but they don't know that there is deliverance from it. We must let them know about that!

Check out the Stephen Bennett Ministries website, if you're interested...

Dave said...

In Luke 16 we read...

The Pharisees, who loved money, heard all this and were sneering at Jesus. He said to them, "You are the ones who justify yourselves in the eyes of men, but God knows your hearts. What is highly valued among men is detestable in God's sight

The wrod detestable is also 'abomination'. Jesus seems to equate seeking after self justification before God and Lord it over others as an abomination.
The problem is we cannot campaign and march against selfish concityed greedy people because we cannot see into their hearts, we cannot throw these people out of church or treat them like lepers because as in Jesus day, many have found there way into leadership.
Homosexuals are easy targets because it is an observable sin that everyone can throw stones at and make themselves feel more holy at least I'm not like them Lord

dinsy said...

All this assumes that homosexuality is a choice - what if it is not a lifestyle choice at all, they were just made that way.

People used to think that sickness and disability was due to sin, I personally thank God that we live in more enlightened times and people are not blamed, criticised or told to repent for being sick.

dinsy said...

I'm also not sure that we are supposed to point out the sins of unbelievers to them. Tell them of the Lord's love by all means, but I can't recall Jesus pointing out people's sins to them in the initial stages of revealing himself to them. It was after they had responded to him that he got onto the subject of sin, if he brought it up at all.

Jesus never told Zacheus that he was a thief, it was Zacheus' own idea to pay back what he had taken immorally, Jesus didn't tell him to do it. He didn't tell off the woman at the well for her lifestyle, he didn't even criticise the woman taken in adultery, sure he told her to stop sinning but that was at the end of their encounter, and after she knew he didn;t condemn her for it.

Shieldsy said...

Nothing to add to the debate just yet ... but thought it was quite amusing to see at the top of you page (Recent comments bit) it says "Dave:Gay, Dinsy:Gay, Meg:Gay"!

dinsy said...

You just wanted it to say "Shieldsy:Gay" didn't you!

yeshua'smags said...

No, we shouldn't tell them they're sinners. We dont' do the changing anyway, God does. Our job is to provide the acceptance and welcome that they get in the homosexual community. I lost one of the teenagers in my youth group to homosexuality because my superiors didn't know how to handle it, and his parents didn't either. He could have been convinced otherwise I believe. But he finally felt accepted and he said he had done things that made him "not good enough to be in church." Oh, like the rest of us deserve to be their?
And we are not born that way! Does the God you know and love seem like he would set us up like that? Why would he say it was wrong and then make you born that way?
I don't believe we are born as clean slates. I agree with Meg that we are more inclined to certain sinful tendencies. But it is the circumstances we are exposed to and people we are put with that help shape who we become. If the church did it's job and we were accepting of "different" people, effeminate boys, or tomboy girls would know that they may get crap for it out in the world, but at church, we're all freaks and God loves us anyway. Then there would be the alternative to the gay community and it would make it harder for Satan to put the thoughts in their heads for the deviant behavior. Just like it does for the rest of our deviant behaviors.

yeshua'smags said...
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Meg said...
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dinsy said...

If gay people are not born gay but choose it, what about people born in the wrong gender body, that later have a sex change? Do you think that is a lifestyle choice too? I know a four year old boy who says he should really be a girl, plays with 4 year old girl toys whenever he gets the chance. Do you think this is deviant behaviour suggested to him by Satan? (By the way his brother and sister are perfectly "normal" or "undeviant" if you prefer that term, so it is not that his family have brought him up that way.)

If you really do believe that God personally selects every gene for our bodies, is totally in charge of the mother's hormones through her pregnancy and controls every other influence possible on a developing foetus, and thus prevents people from being born gay, why does he select spina biffida genes for some, blindness genes for others, why are some babies born with holes in their hearts, etc etc?

The God I know and love would not deliberately inflict blindness on an infant, so I don't believe He does control it to that extent since some babies are indeed born blind.

yeshua'smags said...

You're right, so why would God intentionally inflict homosexuality on someone and then call it a sin?
I hate sounding so stereotypical! I feel like Jerry Fallwell, yuk! Please forgive me if it comes across that way. I apologize if my other posts didn't come across clearly.
While I don't believe we should rally against homosexual lifestyles and activities, I don't condone them either. But one sure as hell better have a relationship with the person before you say anything about God or what He can do. I think living it and being an example first is so the ONLY way to get non-believers to listen.

And when I used the word deviant, I was referring to all of our sinful natures. We all have deviant behaviors. My husband and I had sex before we were married, that is a deviant behavior. I didn't mean to put anyone in that box by themselves.

I have no answers for the 4 year old boy wanting to be a girl. That is one of the many many questions I have for God. I am not usually of the school of thought that Satan can get to children like that. It doesn't suprise me that his siblings do not think this way. Every child is different. I think that is where a lot of this confusion comes from is parents not realizing that they can't fit all of their children into the same mold.
Yes, I do think that people who think they were born the wrong gender and have a sex change choose that lifestyle. They are being tormented, just like anorexics think they're fat. Satan is out to destroy us any way he can and this is one of the ways. If they are born with both parts, well that's different. And that is another question I have for God.
All I know for sure is that babies are born with awful things wrong with them and awful things happen to people because this is Satna's world and as soon as sin entered, this was no longer our home.
We are ALL sinFULL. And we need to remember to show the same mercy and grace to others that we are shown every second.

dinsy said...

"You're right, so why would God intentionally inflict homosexuality on someone and then call it a sin?"

Simple answer - I don't believe He does, i think it just happens to some people in the same way that blindness etc happens to others. God doesn't choose it for us.

I totally agree on the need for relationship with people before talking to them about God.

 

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