Monday, September 25, 2006

Truth?


"Loose Change 2nd Edition" is the follow-up to the most provocative 9-11 documentary on the market today.
This film shows direct connection between the attacks of September 11, 2001 and the United States government.
Evidence is derived from news footage, scientific fact, and most important, Americans who suffered through that tragic day.



You can purchase or download this DVD from the site above. It is a rather provocative look at the events of 9/11, and with the imminent release of Oliver Stone's film World Trade Centre
and also United 93 it is good to examine other films. Loose Change is actually a documentary, whereas as the two films are reconstructions of events.

19 comments:

Anonymous said...

Okay, I watched it. It's the same old, tired, leftist, bag of non-sequiturs, half-truths, bold-faced lies and other balderdash that we've been flogged with by the pinko wing of the Democratic Party since Sept. 12, 2001.

If this "documentary" is true, if the U. S. government purposely killed 3,000 of its own citizens to advance the neoconservative agenda, then we are worse than animals. The British people and everyone else in the "civilized" world are under a moral and ethical duty henceforth to boycott everything American, especially its people, collectively and as individuals. Today is a good day to start.

meg

Dave said...

Not sure I got the same form the film as you did Meg, I found some of the evidence quite compelling, especially the Pentagon and WTC building 7.

This kind of dark business has been going on for many many years, why else did Nero burn Rome other than to blame others.

Boycotting everything American would solve nothing, especially in the light of the many people who have died or been affected as a direct result of 911.

The chances of 20 arabic speaking men hijacking four planes and flying them so well is very remote, the lesson for us all is that we cannot always trust those who have leadership over us.

Shieldsy said...

Haven't watched it yet ... you can watch on goole video.

However, I must admit to going to it with some prejudice. Kind of imagine I'll end up seeing something a little like meg describes. I've read some of the conspiracy theories and they are some of the least convincing ones around. Some interesting stuff (especially the WTC7) that I would like to see further explanations. But "The chances of 20 arabic speaking men hijacking four planes and flying them so well is very remote", sorry, it's not something I find that difficult to comprehend at all.

Anonymous said...

Right, Shieldsy. These guys attended flight schools in Florida and told the instructors that they didn't want to learn how to take off or land planes, only to fly them. The owners of the schools are sick about that now and they have stopped allowing Middle Easterners to enroll.

Anecdotally speaking: my son is a research chemical engineer for one of the Big Three. Last week, he had to make a sudden trip to DC, to the national laboratory that oversees the development of neutron/fuel technology here. Why was it sudden? Because the guy originally scheduled to go is an Iranian citizen, and the lab told my son's employer that it would not allow anyone but U.S. citizens on its grounds, so my son went in his place. I wonder, would that signify that the Bush administration has now ended its jihad on the American people? Or was this just part of its bluff?

Or maybe my son is being recruited to blow up the Sears Tower and that what his trip was really all about... ;>)

meg

Shieldsy said...

Have just gone and re-read some of the conspiracies (9-11Research). Whilst there are lots of interesting things that I'd love to know the official explanations for ... here's is why none of the conspiracy theories hold-up. In order for this absolutely incredible government plot to remain secret, it would need the willing compliance and complete & utter secrecy of 1000's of people ... demolition experts, false 'eye witnesses', people who planted the false evidence, air-crew & pilots who were willing to give their lives for it, etc etc.

It'd be nice to think we've got nothing to fear except a power-crazed bunch of right-wingers. Alas, I think the truth is the more obvious and scarey one ... Islam (and not just the radical kind).

Dave said...

Just because someone says something different to the BBc or Fox news suddenly it is a conspiracy theory.

I think the world has become to accepting, if it carries on like this then what else will we unquestionably believe. The film produced factual evidence, as for the twenty hijacking flyers, even seasoned military pilots would admit to not being able to make the flight manourveres that these men did.

The flight school people interviewed on the film said the flyers were very poor pilots, and stopping middle east people learning is horrible - does that mean all middle east people are terrorists?

I doubt very much that the bush administration are conducting jihad against US citizens. Though I do think that certain men in powerful positions care more about power and wealth than the lives of a few thousand people.

Dave said...

Shieldsy, maybe it is your distrust and dislike of Islam that colours your view, maybe you just cannot reconcile that white western democratic leaders are equally as evil.

PeterinScotland said...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_conspiracy_theories
IMHO gives fairly good coverage of the pros and cons of these theories.

Shieldsy said...

"maybe you just cannot reconcile that white western democratic leaders are equally as evil"

I could reconcile that if they had such a totalitarian grip on the population that they could keep such a massive operation requiring the compliance of so many people a secret.

I find some of the stuff fascinating, but in this case just not plausable enough for me to suspend my belief in the official (& obvious) explanation. I am prepared to fly in the face of popular culture & media though ... I don't believe their evolution conspiracy ;o)

Anonymous said...

There is a moral equivalency between Islam and white democrats? I would accept some level of that argument should one apply a capital "D" to "democrat:" I do think that there's some similarity between diehard, former Clintonistas and Muslim jihadists, at least as to their regard for human life. After all, we still don't know what really happened to Vince Foster or Ron Brown, or countless other Arkansans and others who were somehow "dispatched" at some time or other during the Clinton gubernatorial years and presidency.

IMHO, and with all due respect, Dave, comparing GWB (one of the dumbest presidents we've ever had, no doubt, but since when has stupidity been a capital crime, even here?) to Nero is, well, something you might offer to James Carville for his next volley against this administration on the Sunday talk shows. He'd probably appreciate it and use it. All you'd have to do is go to www.moveon.org to suggest it.

Shieldsy, thank you: you said in exactly the same words what my husband, a decorated veteran of the U.S. Army who served in Vietnam, in the 101st Airborne Div., military intelligence corps, said just yesterday regarding the conspiracy theories that are out there among the radical left wing in this country. Yes, there is a radical left wing in this country, and it's represented by the likes of Nancy Pelosi and Barbara Boxer, among others like Michael Moore, Alec Baldwin, Barbra Streisand and other foreign policy "experts" in Hollywood. Despicable traitors in my book, all of them. It's their rhetoric - not any specific behavior of GWB's - that encourages the rest of the world to distrust even professing Christians among our leaders to the point that even other professing Christians (not those here; those in foreign countries) believe that those leaders are hard at work, devising conspiracies to murder us. "Divide and conquer those who profess Christ..." - whose tactics do those sound like? Whose "realm" do these people really belong to?

Want the truth about this country? Go to www.wnd.com or www.washtimes.com. Take a look at the columns of Charles Krauthammer and Bill Sammon once in awhile...

(Still friends, I hope...!)

meg

Dave said...

Of course still friends, by the way, do not put to much trust in Wikipedia, any one can update this online encyclopedia, nobody regualtes it, most of it is good, but it does contain 'everyones' truth.

I was not comparing GWB to Nero, sorry if it sounded that way to you, I was saying that there are dark forces that will use whatever means possible to secure power. GWB is a puppet, just like Sadaam was for the USA.

It is interesting you say Want the truth about this country? Go to www.wnd.com or www.washtimes.com. Take a look at the columns of Charles Krauthammer and Bill Sammon once in awhile...

Who has decided that what they say is true? What if I said...want to know the truth about the USA, go to Michael Moore's website.

A friend of mine died in the Falklands war when his ship (HMS Ardent) was sunk, I myself was involved as a young lad in the conflict. It was an avoidable war. I respect all who fought and died there, but do I think Thatcher and the cabinet were without blame...no I don't.

All I was saying in this post was be objective, free your minds and be daring enough to have your ideological pillars shaken.

Still friends...Dave:)

Shieldsy said...

Thinking Thatcher's policy was wrong/flawed etc is completely different from thinking HMS Ardent was sunk by the British and that the whole Argenitian think was just a cover up.

I like to think I've got a healthy mistrust for political agnedas but sometimes we're so keen to read between the lines that we completely miss the blindingly obvious.

Alastair said...

Worth watching the film, along with the one on the London July 7th bombings just to get another perspective - it may not be right, but there are still lots of unanswered questions about the 'evidence' which apparently exists against the bombers and al-qaida...

Dave said...

Thinking Thatcher's policy was wrong/flawed etc is completely different from thinking HMS Ardent was sunk by the British and that the whole Argenitian think was just a cover up.

Not quite, Thatchers decision to sink the General Belgrano (an Argentine ship outside the exclusion zone)escalted the conflict and led to all out war.

My point was that blind loyalty on nationalistic or religious grounds is foolishness.

Anonymous said...

Good - I'm glad we're still friends! That's more important than ideological differences. ;>)

That said, well, things are different in this counry than they are over there in the U.K. We're much more polarized. Our two-party system is disintegrating rapidly. Now there are moderate Republicans and most Democrats together, liberal Democrats "out there," and conservative (not neocon) Republicans on the other side. I've always been a conservative Republican, but those on the national level are not what I'd call conservative anymore. Nobody says it, except for maybe Alan Keyes, but the real dividing line in this country is abortion. Thus it's been since the U.S. Supreme Court decided Roe v Wade in 1973, and thus it'll be until that's overturned. Even many liberal Dems would concur with that. I know that's not the case in the U.K.; you're not fighting about that anymore.

I don't go around saying, "My country, right or wrong." That would be sheer idiocy and an affront to my real King. And we can't just go around saying, with Pontius Pilate, "what is truth?" There is objective truth out there - and there are objective lies as well.

The Hollywood Left - Michael Moore included - has a vested interest in the defeat and the marginalization of anyone who professes to follow Christ. They want to continue to coarsen the culture so that their own perverted behaviors become more the norm rather than not. (2 Cor. 2:14-16 and Romans 1 richly apply.) Linda Ronstadt, for example, has said that she really hates it when she knows there are Christians in an audience of hers and in fact, she told an interviewer recently that she'd prefer we not come to her concerts. (Okay!)

I can't concede that a Moore or a Ronstadt might be correct about anything because to do that would be to enlist in their army of leftist pawns whose only real motive is to cheapen our culture more and more by the day.

A couple of years ago at Thanksgiving, our family stood with over a thousand other people at a Houston, TX prayer gathering on a street corner downtown and we all sang "The Hallelujah Chorus" together. If anyone tried to do that up here, near the People's Republic of Ann Arbor, they'd get arrested pronto. All I'm aiming for is to keep what's left of Christian culture in the U.S., which isn't much. We can't afford too much more "tolerance" in this country or we won't have a country anymore.

Our First Amendment has been largely trash-canned.

(Sorry, but I did like Lady Thatcher - even got to meet her once at a book-signing here...!)

meg

PeterinScotland said...

I'm not putting trust in Wikipedia, but, when I looked, that particular article seemed to be giving both sides of the issue in an informative way. And on such a controversial issue it will continue to. Most people who ever edited it will have it on their "watchlist" and will know when someone changes it. Some really controversial articles like this even get frozen because "wars" erupt over them. Whilst blatantly one-sided information can appear in obscure articles, popular ones will constantly get edited by many people. An example of how bad edits get reverted quickly can be seen in the article Daniel. If you look at its history you will see that this is frequently edited by silly schoolkids to say things like "Daniel is a really cool guy" or "Daniel is a .......... (uncomplimentary)". The edit rapidly gets changed back. Wikipedia is currently the 17th most popular site amongst Alexa users, with 5 % of all Alexa users visiting Wikipedia on any given day.

Shieldsy said...

OK, stayed up very late and watched the film! Really compelling viewing and raised all sorts of interesting 'evidence' and anomolies. Glad I watched it. [Incidentaly, I have always wondered how 1,000 people died without trace, and why there seems to be no photographic evidence of flight 73 ... honest!]

Would love to hear some rational explanations for some of the points raised, and hope that the authorities do release some of the audio & video footage.

Here's my stumbling blocks though ...

1)Although not completely beyond the realms of possibility, I cannot believe that it would be possible for a democratic government to orchestrate such a vast & complex deception without someone 'whistle blowing' or leaking stuff.

2)The reaction of the Islamic world on Sept 11th ... did the USA orchestrate the perverse celebrations across much of the Middle East. Plus all the previous & subsequent terrorist attacks of a similar (but less spectacular) vane.

3)Without being flippant, I also can't understand why the flag on the moon fluttered, why Elvis's casket was the wrong weight, why all the CCTV was off in the tunnel where Diana died etc.

4)I do believe there is a conspiracy ... a spiritual conspiracy. I think satan and his allies will do whatever they can to discredit & divide the Church. I cannot help thinking that the fact that possibly the most influetial leader on the planet is a professing follower of Jesus will have brought the whole of hell in opposition. I'm saddened by the amount of almost irrational vitriol Dubya generates amongst his (European) christian family ... rather than prayer. If only the Church could practice the same sort of brotherhood that Islam has with its sense of Umma.

Do look forward to seeing how it all pans out over time. Though in typical right-wing fundy mentallity, can't help thinking that the years til Christs return can be measured in decades rather than centuries.

Dave said...

Shieldsy, glad you made the effort, I had the comfort of watching it on a train. You are right it does raise many interesting questions (ones we may never get answers to), and on the whole it does place them in an unbiased format, though the producers own leanings are clear in the way the questions are asked.

My point in posting about it was simply to raise questions and see alternatives. Never thought about the flag on the moon, is there solar wind on the moon?


In answer to your points, my thoughts (mine I add) are that the government of the USA ignored repeated warnings, and some members (all parties) may have been complicit in the event, it seems very possible. I think though that there is a greater power of evil at work, to which you refer later and most governments are not fully aware of all that happens within their borders.

I tend not to get too involved anymore in the Bush debates, I do not know him, never heard of Jesus or the Apostles discussing Caligulas invasion of Britain etc, but that was prior to the marriage of church and state, so if George Bush is working to see Isaiah 58 worked out then the Lord bless Him.

Gald you watched it, I may try and get a public showing in Dingwall if I can find a suitable venue, imagine the debate that would cause!!

christian lies said...

911

World Trade Center Building 7
was NOT hit by an aircraft.

9/11 Truth:
Thermite & The Case for Controlled Demolition

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vd1-Dp_-7WI&mode=related&search


Watch this all the way to the end. This video confirms that the angled cut on the H beam seen in the photo at the bottom of is the remains of a controlled demolition

http://wtc7.net/videos.html
911 Videos Show Building 7's Vertical Collapse.

http://physics911.net

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www.911revisited.com
ONLINE VIDEO

www.NineEleven.co.uk

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