Friday, July 07, 2006


I noticed a comment by Peter on the Milky Way post which said...

"although I have a pastoral role within the church, I am not an ordained pastor"

I wonder what you think about this, who is it that ordains a Pastor?


Meg said...

A man is born again of the Holy Spirit, perhaps as a child. Later, does the Holy Spirit prod him, give him natural and supernatural gifts (the heart of a servant, the mind of Christ, oratorical skills, hermeneutical abilities, exegetical expertise, a shepherd's disposition, and last but not least humility, etc.)? And does he then, as has become necessary under man's rules, take these God-given and blessed attributes and shop them to a "duly authorized" seminary, where he will acquire the head indoctrination of seminary professors only, thus fulfilling the earthbound requirements to become entitled to "ordination" here? Whom did Christ "ordain" except, informally and without miters on their heads or albs on their backs, His apostles and disciples? Whom did He set apart? Two thousand years later, it does appear that there are way too many phonies and flaming Pharisees who started out wrong in the first place in that they have never been born again -- Dave, am I on the right track? Thank you.


Dave said...

Right track Meg, too many people want to be shepherds for the power and control it could bring.
Ordination is not a NT practice, we should all be teachers, but God gifts some to lead and protect his flock. Ordination just creates a 'minister' class.
If you are a pastor then you are a pastor, 'ordained' or not.

One thing though, oratorical skills, hermeneutical abilities, exegetical expertise are not necessary, humility, servant, mind of christ, heart of God etc are

Peter said...

Thanks for the post and the comments. I will take consideration of them as place my future in God's hands safe in the knowledge it is never out of God's hands.


alexander said...

in line with your tongue in cheek question - my question would be, what do you mean by 'ordination' and 'Pastor'?

Dave said...

Hi Alexander,

Just a quick response, by Pastor I mean shepherd, or under shepherd, one who feeds and guides and serves and leads to still waters and green pastures, so not an office but a way of life, someone who has a bit of Acts 20:20 vision, but also verses 17-35 as a guide to a true pastor, oh and Eze 34:11ff.

By ordination I mean that process where fallible commitees, boards and secular agencies decide who is suitable to shepherd God's people and a process is established to certify someone fit for the task. This process can give people trust in a piece of paper, like I said if you are a pastor you are a pastor.

Meg said...

Dave, your last post here said a whole lot in just a very few words.

Can it be inferred that by its very nature, if not quite by literal definition, "ordination" is a (necessary?) evil? Or maybe it's not too necessary.

How do we rid the visible Church's pastoral offices of those who never should have been "ordained," who have only, throughout their careers as pastors, exhibited Ezekiel 34:3-6 behavior, who are primarily or exclusively Jeremiah 23:1 & 2 Timothy 3:2-7 "shepherds?" Do we wait for the Lord to separate the wheat from the tares? Or how do we exclude these people from admission to seminaries in the first place?

I guess what I'm asking is, who's running some of the seminaries in the first place? Methinks that in way too many cases, it's the tares...


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