Thursday, June 01, 2006

Rick Warren and Globalism

Rick Warren last year announced that Rwanda could become the first Purpose Driven an article here.

Chuck Colson said...

"For years, I have been pleading with churches to get out of their comfort zones and turn the world upside down for Christ," Colson said. "Rick Warren has got a plan to do it.

The P.E.A.C.E. plan will be a "revolution" for global Christianity, Warren told the congregation.

"The Scripture shows us that Jesus shar
ed the Good News, trained leaders, helped the poor, cared for the sick and taught the children," Warren said. "Our P.E.A.C.E. plan will just do the five things Jesus did while He was here on earth."

Should we by means of plans and organisation attempt to 'Christianize' the world? What else did Jesus do on earth, was it just the above five things? What about his opposition to the Jewish religious leaders, who would Jesus oppose today?


billy westwood said...

What's up Dave Dog,

I'm still waiting on the dvd from bernice king, but you got it when I do.

I wanted to write because I saw Warren speak on his heart for Africa when he visited Harvard at the School of Government. There is a lot one can criticize about what he does, but I think few people have had the revelation about sowing his money into the kingdom that he does. He is the only person that I've heard with the same revelation that I have had. James Ryle almost has it.

In short, after gaining all his wealth from book sales, he asked God what to do with it. Warren studied scripture and after reading deut., he felt that the Lord was showing him that Israel had been established and prospered for three reasons: To take care of the fatherless, the widow, and the stranger among them. I believe he provided a reasonable contemporary interpretation, which spoke to his call to develop Africa. I have heard very few people that understand the implications of deut for the church today and that God's glory is revealed when his Bride goes out into the world and ministers out of her riches to the poor. Who is in more urgent need than Africa at this point in time? India, Cambodia, Haiti...All are good places to start.

The disciples complained to Jesus about people outside of their group ministering under a Jesus-like banner. Jesus said that if they are not against us, then they are for us. One interesting thing I noticed that emergent folks seem to be against the Church, which is a bad move. I don't quite know what they are for in the positive and active sense. You can't be anti-Church
(anti-christ), pro-world, and on Jesus' team at the same time.

Divine experiences and religous ectasy are beautiful, but if it's not unto something then it ain't about boo-boo. I can send you the Warren DVD, which I have, as well.

Much love,

Dave said...

Nice one D, lookin forward to the DVD, and yes the warren DVD would be good.

As for the post, yes I just wanted to put it out there, I really appreciate your comments.
I think the sentiment you put forward is good, and really, if you ain't doing it with Jesus in the daily things then you need to get off the back of everyone else.
So many ministries fill their time with opposing others that they miss what God is doing in their own neighbourhood.
The work of the Kingdom is those things you mention...widows etc, the OT tells us this, as does the NT.

As for the emergent thing, well I think a part of them is opposd to the established church, not all, and part of the established church is opposed to them, not all.

In reality years ago nobody knew what anyone else did anyway, its only our modern global community that allows this blogs.

Thanks for your view, and whilst I don't like plans and the mix of church and state, there are some people who will benefit socially from this program, will they benefit spiritually...thats up to someone bigger than me.

christian lies said...

QUOTE:"The event included greetings to the congregation from President George Bush and evangelist Billy Graham ..."

Oh dear.

Met a nice christian today. My father who art in heaven, [alledgedly] was a Good Christian.
I suspect their may be a few more

dinsy said...

I don't know what to think anymore - part of me wants to say that the Rwandans have had enough to bear without having to be the first "Purpose Driven Nation", with an imported programme of what some bunch of Yanks think might be good for them, but then part of me thinks if anyone wants to try and tackle the crushing problems in Africa then that has got to be good.

I don't know anymore how we tell good motives/outcomes from bad, hope from despair, how can it be bad to want to do something for desperately situated people, but then how can it be good to work out a whole programme and drop it on those people from outside?

How many Rwandan people have had any imput into this "PEACE program" - just the name makes me feel sceptical - but maybe that's one of my issues I need to deal with.

I just don't know anymore.

Shieldsy said...

I have a huge amount of respect for Rick Warren. Signed up for his weekly newsletter several years ago ... never received a duff one yet.

There seems to be a growing trend to divorce Christianity from social/political action. We seem to have fallen into the lie that 'religion' is a private matter and shouldn't have any bearing on public life.

The truth is if Christians don't have a bearing on policy making then there's no shortage of people who are willing to. You can never make a nation 'Christian' but the scripture is riddled throughout to the benefits of ordering a nation around Godly principles ... if it wasn't common sense anyway!

Hats off to Rick Warren again for trying something incredibly ambitious, beneficial and practical.

Anonymous said...

I could give a monkey about who likes Rick Warren or who doesn't like him. Seems like we always get off on that tangent as Christians (not criticizing anything here - simply stating what was swirling around in my head when I read the post and comments here).

To try and answer some of your questions posted, Dave...
(1) Should we by means of plans and organisation attempt to 'Christianize' the world?

Well, if God tells us to, yes. If he doesn't, no. We're an army in one sense, so there must be some kind of strategy, but I'm thinking it will be shown to us as individuals, not as a whole, because God is intimate and wants relationship with us in order to be known by us. The strategy would come out of that. If it comes out of anything else, forget it.

(2) What else did Jesus do on earth, was it just the above five things?

Jesus made disciples. I'm not even sure he went around and chose the 12 disciples by saying "Oh - I think this guy will make a great leader." I think He showed people how to know God and how to follow Him and speak to Him and know His voice and seek His face and live His love out here on earth for the sake of the fatherless, the widows, the orphans, etc. Part of Warren's 5 point plan is to share the good news because Jesus did? Jesus WAS the good news. So, maybe if we shared ourselves, loved one another and did specifically what God is saying to do people would see God and go where He sent them... including Africa... which would do away with having to have a 5 point program to do it. Why do we always think we have to DO IT. God DOES IT. We know Him and listen and obey. Seems that if we poured as much into knowing Him as we do into debates and new books and new teachings and our thoughts on it all, then we'd be DOING what we are only theorizing about now.

(3) What about his opposition to the Jewish religious leaders, who would Jesus oppose today?

Maybe the question isn't who WOULD Jesus oppose today, but who DOES He oppose. 'Who' and 'What'? Scary to ask in the present tense because that means we have to actually do what God says and judge one another and allow the kingdoms and programs and attitudes that we've built to be torn down so God can show us Himself and His plans.

Sorry that this is so long. I've been traveling and busy lately, so thought I'd exercise my brain a little by engaging in a discussion here! Guess I need to post something on my own blog, eh?

: )


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